Time for engineers to think about unionizing?
Appears in Print As: Time for engineers to think about unionizing?
It sometimes seems that professions and workers represented by unions do better than those without them. Examples include school teachers, autoworkers, airline pilots, state-employed doctors and dentists, and a host of others. So why haven’t more engineers jumped on the union bandwagon?
Traditionally, engineers have a reputation for individualism and shy away from unions. They seem to believe they can negotiate the pay and benefits they deserve. And if they don’t like the compensation or working conditions, they can always get another job with better benefits. Or at least that’s what they tell themselves.
To get an idea of what unions are doing for engineers, I talked to a few members of the Society of Professional Engineering Employees in Aerospace (SPEEA), a union which represents 24,000 engineers working for Boeing and related companies. Some of the major benefits of union membership, according to members I spoke with, are better pay and benefits. They claim that while managers and other unrepresented workers have had to take pay cuts and give back benefits, sometimes on short notice, SPEEA engineers have always gotten raises, both for seniority and merit, as per their contract.
The union engineers and technicians say they also appreciate the security and peace of mind of a contract with well-defined policies governing pensions, hiring and layoffs, vacation, sick leave, and even overtime. And they say the union, along with its lawyers, will see to it that management meets its contractual obligations. This means management can’t fire union members on a whim or without just cause.
As one SPEEA member put it, “Many engineers say they are professionals and the company must treat them as such. But you’re still labor and they can treat you as they see fit. There’s nothing you can do about it except quit. And in this economy, that’s not always a good option, especially if you’re over 40. Heaven help you if you’re over 50 or 60.”
It’s true that if you accept an engineering position at Boeing or one of its related companies, you will be forced to join a union. “But the $40 a month it costs in dues is less than the benefits the union has negotiated,” says one 25-year Boeing worker. “And although I’ve seen several engineers who were a little grumpy at being lumped in with a union, they changed their tune when they ran into a problem with medical leave for taking care of a parent or spouse, or had a beef with a manager, and the union stepped in to resolve the problem.”
The same Boeing engineer noted that outside IT people and other engineering consultants who work at Boeing often confess to being jealous of the union’s benefits and contract package. “They also wouldn’t mind having a say about company policies and projects similar to what we enjoy.”
All the SPEEA folks I spoke with admit that any union is made up of people with different goals and opinions and that unions can have problems. But they also say those relatively small problems can be ironed out. They also agree that a good union does not want to hurt the company. All SPEEA members I spoke with say they take great pride in Boeing and the planes and equipment the company designs and builds and want the company to survive and thrive.
So why do you think engineers have avoided unions for all these years?
— Stephen J. Mraz
© 2012 Penton Media Inc.

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Comments
Wrong question
"So why do you think engineers have avoided unions for all these years?"
Very slick debating tactic.
The real question is why is the union pushing itself on engineers when we obvious aren't asking for their help?
I think the answer is obvious.
Thanks for the answer
Thanks for the obvious answer. And could you cite an instance of the union pushing itself on engineers?
Union pushing itself on engineers
Stephen Mraz:
You are pushing it onto engineers with this article. Otherwise why even write the article if not to encourage union membership as you obviously do in this article.
In fact you leave it up to letter writers to list any of the negatives associated with unionism. You only list the benefits.
You fail to mention how destructive public service unions are to society. I employ them with my tax dollars, so do you, but we have no binding input in the negotiation of their contracts or strikes.
Lazy B... that pretty much says it all.
Unionizing engineers
My old observation was that unions move in to a vacuum left by management, and then don't fill it. Yes, you will be taken advantage of by 'the corporation', and maybe even by your immediate supervisor; but none of that holds a candle to the screwing you will get from the union. Unionize your job and within your lifetime your function will be happening in New Delhi, or Beijing.
Boeing long ago dumped their experienced engineers for cheaper youth. For a corporate culture, their design department was a ghost town at 4:31 pm. No wonder they have to buy politicians to compete.
My father was in the last generation of professionals in the steel business in Pittsburgh. The buildings that were full of white collar tech folks are now filled with call centers. Check Dearborn, or Buffalo, or Cleveland... the lessons are already there.
union vs enginners
Look at what happend at the CAT plant in Canada? What did the union do for those union members? Nn GOOD Enginer worth his salt should be in a union.I am 82 years old and still working, if I did not like the work I was doing today I could quit, and then all I had to do is pick up the phone and gess what, next day I had a new job. I never had to do this,but I know I could have. Good enginers no matter what the times are always in demand.As for that Sr. engineer that did not want to listen to his Jr, all I can say is shame on him!
You have to be a spineless
You have to be a spineless wimp to want to have a union do your bidding and what are the incentives for doing good work when the slackers are getting the same pay. No thanks!
Union engineers make more?
l wouldn't be as harsh as Anonymous above and say this article is joke, however, I think the statements that the engineers' pay increases were higher because they are in the union is unsupported by anything stated in the article. It may be true unionized engineers get higher pay increases, but the 'proof' cited, that managers' pay/benefits did not increase while the unionized engineers' pay/benefits did, is irrelevant in my opinion. I would offer that a more meaningful comparison would be the pay and pay increases of unionized engineers compared to that of non-unionized engineers in the same geographic area and same industry, while comparing same education and experience levels of course. The market for managers and the market for engineers is two different markets; would you compare the pay and pay increases of unionized Starbucks barristas against non-unionized H&R Block tax preparers? No of course not, those two professions are competing in two completely different market places. So how can an engineer (who should know better) justify comparing the pay increases of managers to the pay increases of unionized engineers?
Represented Engineers
My Fortune 500 employer until very recently had the unique combination of both represented and and non represented engineers in neighboring states. One state was a right to work state, and had the represented engineers, while the other was a closed shop state and employed the non represented engineers.
In talking with my represented colleages in the right to work state, I got the impression that my salary was better than theirs, benefits were pretty similar, some of theirs were better than what we got, some were not as good. However, we are located in a higher cost area (housing, taxes, etc)
The way I always figured it - If I was unhappy with my job, I would have quit 25 years ago.
Unions for engineers
As a life member of American Society of Mechanical Eng'rs, with GE, Westinghouse, et al., including many assignments as a job shopper--and now in my eighth decade--I favor unionization.
Most eng'rs are more corporate employees than providers of professional services such as M.D.s & attorneys. To equate ourselves with M.D.s, et al., is self-delusion...
John Maxfield Hague, B.E.M.E. 1959,
M.S. Eng'g Mechanics 1968
9 February 2012
That may work for a company
That may work for a company that lives on government contracts, where income is on a cost-plus basis. The author sites teachers unions and others living off the tax payer but one only has to look at Illinois and California to see what those contracts have cost. Illinois raised its taxes to record levels a year ago and every month since then the number of people with jobs in the state has delined. Now there is talk of raising the taxes on those who still have jobs. It is an out of control spiral that will end when the last productive working person turns out the lights as he leaves the state.
If you are a union company in the competitive world, a non-union shop will eat your lunch. Or if possible the jobs will move elsewhere. Cat just announced that it will not relocate a plant to Illinois because of the taxes and the state's financial mess.
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