Engineering in Germany
German engineers have a reputation for having more practical backgrounds than their American counterparts, but does that translate into more-fulfilling careers?
Germany has always been synonymous with engineering. It is well known for its technical universities, internships that are practical and immersive, and perhaps most important, a culture and an economy that rewards engineering skills with both prestige and career growth.
Who, What, Where
Authored by Leif Juergensen
John Kowal
ELAU Inc., a company of Schneider Electric, Schaumburg, Ill., elau.com
Edited by Leland Teschler, lteschler@penton.com
Is it better in Germany?
German engineers have many of the same concerns as their U.S. counterparts.
Apprenticeships play a large role in bringing German companies new talent.
While there are no substitutes for aptitude and motivation, the environment in Germany does favor technical education at all levels. The relative lack of engineering technology curricula in the U.S. stands in bleak contrast to the many and varied technical universities in Germany and their close collaboration with industry. In Germany, hands-on internships at companies span the engineering student’s senior year.
Nevertheless, many Germans are unhappy with the country’s primary education system. One criticism concerns the large influx of new grade school teachers in the 1970s. There is a feeling voiced among parents that this generation of teachers has became entrenched, stagnant, and quite bureaucratic and unapproachable. The fear is that the foundation for higher education has deteriorated as a result of their policies. And though many of them are looking at imminent retirement, their departure is a dual-edged sword because it could potentially cause wholesale disruption of the primary school system.
Despite such problems at the primary-school level, German universities have a stellar reputation. They have a long history of close ties to industry. And cooperation between business and education starts young. Companies frequently extend apprenticeships and internships even to high-school students. So young engineering grads and technicians have the opportunity to start careers with an intimate knowledge of their company’s business. Companies start these programs because they are effective at developing employees who are productive the day they’re hired. These relationships also breed stability and loyalty, especially in smaller communities where many engineering firms reside.
Fast facts about German engineering
• Germany exports more mechanical engineering products than any other country, according to the German Engineering Federation.
• Twenty percent of all exported machinery globally came from Germany last year.
• Last year, German machinery and equipment makers added about 50,000 employees. This year they are expected to add another 15,000.
• The number of mechanical engineers in Germany doubled over each of the last two decades.
• The fastest-growing segment for German robotics and automation companies in 2006 was machinevision technology.
But apprenticeships aren’t automatic. Students must seek these jobs out. Nor are apprenticeships mandatory for employment at industrial companies. And there is no guarantee of employment once the apprenticeship has run its course.
Still, it is easy to find high-ranking officials in German manufacturers who began their career with the company as apprentices in high school. And there is an attitude in Germany that employment longevity is a plus for both employer and employee. So it is not uncommon to hear Germans express bewilderment over the practices of large U.S. companies which appear to favor assignments that are only two years long. Most German manufacturers figure it takes closer to five years to both master a position and prepare a replacement before transitioning to the next step on the career ladder.
Becoming a German engineer
The hottest engineering fields in Germany today are in IT, automation, and mechanical engineering geared toward design of machinery. But if ever there was a success story in Germany’s engineering education system, it’s mechatronics. Combining computer science, electrical and mechanical-engineering disciplines, mechatronics programs attract top students with the lure of the best jobs. There are actually two kinds of colleges in Germany that award engineering degrees. The first are called Technical Universities (more emphasis on theory). It takes about five or six years to complete a degree at a Technical university. Graduates typically end up doing R&D, or eventually in corporate management and education.
The second type is called Fachhochschulen (more emphasis on applied technology). They tend to be more practical and deal directly with industrial technologies. Graduates generally finish in four to five years. In addition, there are automation technology institutes which are a little like trade schools. There are quite a number of all three institutions. They can be found in Cologne, Dresden, Magdeburg, Freiberg, Bremen, Stttgart, Rostock, Darmstadt, Bochum, Ilmenau, Merseburg, Halle, Wernigerode, Mittweida, Flensburg, Chemnitz, Karlsruhe, Berlin, Siegen, and Braunschweig.
There is a third route to an engineering degree through practical experience and certification. However, Germany is a country where even a baker must pass a three-year apprenticeship to be eligible for employment. So the process of earning an engineering degree without formal classroom time is also quite rigorous.
As in U.S. engineering schools, there is typically a dropout rate of 20% or more from German technical universities and Fachhochschulen. (In our coauthor’s first semester, 400 students started a math course wherein 70% of them eventually washed out.)
Adding to the difficulty is the fact that Germany has 16 different states, each with different policies and regulations that govern school attendance. These regulations tend to be more restrictive than what U.S. students are accustomed to. For example, our coauthor (who passed the math course) moved south and found he couldn’t resume study there in December. He had to wait until the next scholastic year. He ended up having to go out of the region to find a school on his schedule. And as in the U.S., German schools demand that students make high grades in courses for which they request a transfer of credits.
It is also more common in Germany for university classes to be a mix of students having different academic backgrounds. As an example, about 35 of the 70 students in our coauthor’s electrical engineering class were transfers. Another 20 came directly from high school. And 10 had apprenticed and worked as electricians. This was in an EE degree gram that focused on electrical energy generation with automation as a sub or side category.
The situation with engineering in Germany has several parallels with engineering in the U.S. One of them is in demographics. The feeling there is that too few women and minorities pursue engineering careers. So there are efforts underway to make the profession more well known among youngsters in these demographics. And it is easy to find engineering outreach programs targeting German high-school students because Germany is beset with the same aging population as the U.S. The feeling in Germany is that there may not be enough young engineers to continue the country’s traditional leadership in engineering. German leaders view this falloff in engineers as a critical problem because the country is a world leader in machinery exports. All in all, German politicians and businesses alike think a strong engineering base is an economic necessity.
Germans have blamed the impending shortage of engineers on various things at various times. One theory is that it is a result of changing world views. For example, the green movement has been strong in Germany since the 1970s and there is a feeling it may have led children to view engineering as a profession which creates things that hurt the environment. In addition, there is a perception in Germany that the traditional prestige of engineering has eroded somewhat, perhaps because the Germany manufacturing economy turned in a lackluster performance in the 1980s and 1990s. This, in turn, has led a significant number of German engineers to become ex-pats.
Another parallel with the U.S. is that German students with strong analytical skills have been attracted to degrees in finance and business. At least until recently, these degrees have been viewed as fast tracks to corporate success.
One other trend that worries Germans is the change in economic background of the average engineering student. Twenty years ago, roughly a third of engineering students came from affluent, educated households. Another 25% were from average income families, and 15-20% came from households considered poor. Today, at least half of German students are affluent and the poor are largely missing from universities. The thinking is that children from households at the poverty level are under pressure to augment the family income, so they elect to work rather than pursue higher education.
Most Americans would not view the tuition at German universities as exorbitant. Nominal tuition runs perhaps 1,000 to 2,000 annually. Over the course of four to six years of study, the combined cost of living away from home, books, clothes, etc., can be in the 55,000 to 60,000 range. There are government loans and scholarships available for those who demonstrate financial need. And as in the U.S., a few individuals game the system: The government does ask to be paid back once you are gainfully employed. Some people quit working in response.
Some German engineers complain, like doctors in the U.S., that they never recoup the income lost while spending long years in school. Moreover, salary compression is a fact of life. Engineers in Germany start at salaries of 40,000 to 50,000. This is considered high, but engineers fall behind in overall earnings compared to other professions as they progress within their career.
Top degrees
Still, a “Dipl.-Ing.” (short for Diplom-Ingenieur) from either a university or Fachhochschule is a respected degree. The Dipl.-Ing. in Germany is analogous to an engineering doctorate in the U.S. and still opens a lot of doors.
Like U.S. institutions, German universities and economic development organizations have recruited qualified candidates from outside Germany. Today it is not uncommon to find these programs populated by students from the U.S., India, and other places, all of whom aspire to have the degree, which roughly translates to “diplomaed engineer,” on their business cards.
Degrees granted by both kinds of institutions require a thesis. Thesis work is considered especially difficult, typically driven by research in a professor’s for-profit project. So degree candidates fuel the numerous cooperative ventures between industry and universities. Thus thesis topics are not mere academic exercises. They are serious efforts directed toward commercial R&D and developing new technologies.
To get an idea of where a lot of German engineering effort goes, consider the recently completed Interpack Show, widely regarded as the premier trade show for packaging machinery. There appeared to be no shortage of innovative, well-engineered and beautifully fabricated German equipment, with many advances in automation and robotics since the last show two years ago. From Interpack, it would be easy to think that German engineers are still at the top of their game. But they are not resting on their laurels. In packaging machinery, at least, the Italians are coming on strong.

It is likely that a German engineer has spent time apprenticing on a factory floor before moving to design work.

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Comments
need info for engineering school in germany
i have a degree in environmental engineering from the US and i would like to get my masters in germany. i am a US citizen, thus my german is very bad. i do have family in germany that i can stay with but how does one go about finding a school that will have information on english...also, what kind of visa do i need to study there? can i work part time while i study? do not know where to start...please email any information to angelovski73@yahoo.com thanks
On the comparison of universities
Having experienced both countries as a student and currently studying at a technical university, I'd like to add a few points:
I don't think the German and the US university culture can be compared at all. Here in Germany you focus a lot more on the specific subject, for example you start off on your major straight away (no undeclared, for example) and you cannot experience the breadth of the curriculum without damaging your cv. This would perhaps partly explain the US problem solvers and the German specialists.
Answering the guys who are looking at the number of publications and the number of patents:
It seems to me that there is notable pressure in the US to publicize at a high frequency and often well written but shorter papers are publicized. In Germany it is a little different, since many researchers prefer to collect enough material for a longer more in depth publication before getting the word out.
Additionally I believe that patents simply are more popular in the US, as well.
Mindless critics (only to those who should feel adressed) may also remember that there are scientific journals outside of the US and there are languages other than English in which one may publish (and those popular rankings are often based on the US point of view). Furthermore you are actually measuring a country the size of montana with about 83 mio people up the the complete United States with a population (and accordingly higher number of research institutions) of above 300 mio.
The perspective on higher education differs between both countries, as well and simply telling German universities with a different structure, completely different financing and a different background to become more liberal simply does not work in my opinion.
Actually, I'll be spending some more time in the US simply because I love your country and getting the best of both is certainly fine with me.
Actually, I'd be thankful for a thorough review on engineering in the US as we are at it!
Does one need to know the
Does one need to know the german language in order to further his studies in Mechanical Engineering in Germany. And how relevant is the German language if one intends to work in Germany?
German in Germany
It's great to read about all that interest in engineering!
The not-so-nice news first: Most degrees are taught in German.
However, especially following the bologna process, many degree programms taught through English have been established especially on the graduate (master's) level.
Some of the best places to study engineering in Germany may be found at http://www.tu9.de/en/index.php
Universities of Applied Sciences (Fachhochschulen), though, are not listed there.
A good source in general would be the German Academic Exchange Service at http://www.daad.de/en/index.html
They offer databases, counselling and scholarships to international students.
As for working in Germany:
Many Germans speak English at a decent level (assuming that my english is considered decent) and especially larger companies have often introduced English as a working language.
So in fact many foreigners come here to learn German on the job. (And most people really appreciate you learning German - we know it isn't the easiest language around)
Let me assure you: Excellent international students and engineers are very welcome!
It Is Not the Schools We Attend
The constant emphasis in comparing the engineering schools is misleading. Working for a US company heavenly dependant in German machinery have made me see several things:
1-We are more creative in the US, just our culture of trying something new when you see the opportunity.
2-The German specialist are way above us. When they master something, the master it to the limit.
3-Our generalist are better. This is also cultural, our managers put quick before right, therefore we have to wear many hats. Some fit better than others....
Schools are what they are and people will get what they get from personal dedication and experience. That is not the root of the difference. The differences are in the culture of job hoping here, that turns us into much better problem fixers, and the culture of dedication over there, which translates to time in position and creates better designers, specialist.
I love our country and respect the Germans. Engineer by trade with economics and sociology as hobby, I am always baffled by the "which one is better" debate. This is my take:
1-If I want a well designed boat, I rather it be designed by Germans. Chances are the team will be made of experienced personnel that have been doing the same for years and enjoy the respect of their company. A life time of training in boat design.
2-If the boat is sinking and there are no prints or spare parts available, I rather be with Americans. Chances are their management never gives them the proper resources and their entire career is about putting off fires and "urgent project" that turns into "cancelled project" after a couple weeks. A life time of training in keeping boats afloat.
These, my peers on both sides of the Atlantic, has nothing to do with the types of universities we attend.
need help
Wow thats good that u came up with such a great association.Now am a radio station technician who wants to study a diploma course in germany but needs some one to sponsor mi
The Dip-Ing in Germany is
The Dip-Ing in Germany is not at all equal to Ph.D in US.
It is between BS and MS.
The problem in German universities is the kind of patent ownership, which does not belong to the university but to individuals, with inefficient technology transfer system.
What makes the commercialization of patent problematic and not beneficial for universities, therefore the universities in Germany are not reach and strong enough to support the free research. The researchers attract to the public/private institutions with strong relationship with industries, what makes them in early stage the industries’ employee.
This system prevents the researchers from creating new knowledge and makes them professional technicians. This system is good enough for low and medium-tech industries and process optimization but not for high-tech activity based on innovation and knowledge.
German Engineers
Concern for small details can make a good product better. Yet revolutionary ideas create completely new products. Such as computers and lasers. Individual and a free economy make this possible. The first Nobel price for the laser was given to one American and two Soviets. The laser became a product in the USA. In the Soviet Union the creative talent was placed into government control. Now Germans, Americans and a few Russians are involved with developing this technology as well as other countries. The individual always is stronger than the government if allowed to function freely. Formal education is important. Land who developed the instant camera. Did not have time to complete a formal education. He had only 3 years of University.
Carl Lambrecht
Correction + criticism
Guys,
This is NOT CORRECT:
"The Dipl.-Ing. in Germany is analogous to an engineering doctorate in the U.S. ...."
This is correct:
"The Dipl.-Ing. in Germany is analogous to somewhere between the B.S. and M.S. engineering degrees in the U.S. ..."
Furthermore:
If all those things are so nice and ideal in German universities how can one explain the lack of patents (per capita) compared to the US ??
Furthermore, how can one explain a similar lack in scientific (per capita) publications ???
At the doctorate level in the US, students are expected to take a significant number of courses. This is not true for Germany. Thus German PhDs seem to be very focused at their research subject "almost knowing everything about nothing" and lack breadth ...
The authors forgot to mention the strictly hierarchical faculty system making the "Institutes" equivalent to absolute kingdoms of "Her Professor" while a number of younger enthusiastic researchers play only the role of "Her Professor's dozent".
The German universities are definitely good, definitely better than a number of other European ones but they need to open and become a lot more liberal ... The US paradigm might not be a bd one ....
How can one explain the small (but not infinitesimal) brain drain from Germany to the US, particularly at the Post-Doctoral level?
Income difference is not such to justify that ...
In that concern, I would
In that concern, I would like to mention some points.
1) you are comparing US with Germany. There are much more number of universities in the US, so it is very normal that they have more publications and patents.
2) how can one explain a similar lack in scientific (per capita) publications ???
One can explain this according to 1st answer, and also, sometimes doing a PhD in germany takes 5-6 years which is very common indeed. That means, they dont care about publications. My lectureer did his PhD for nine years in a automobile company, maybe now it is more clear that why german cars are better than others and germany is not affected from global crisis as the US is.
3)Tell me only one country which spread his wellness over entire land? except germany? look at usa, on the main street, everything is fine. Come and see germany, if you can see any difference between a main street or another street, than I will not talk again.
4)Concerning this Dipl. Ing, I do not think they are at equal level with MSc. graduates. I think having a MSc is (under same conditions) much more better than having a Diplom.
I am not german by the way. Just an observer who has seen most parts of the world.
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